Adam, at 8 minutes 35'ish seconds, you defined exactly how I as a young woman in 1968 felt. I could not get a checking account without a cosigner. I could not rent my own apartment without a cosigner. I was clearly made to feel diminished only because I was female and not valued as a 100% human citizen. Hence, over the decades, enough women realized why they felt that way - it became called "toxic masculinity" and defined by "mansplaining."
So truly, if young men of my age back then are feeling this identical rejection of themselves as valued, I say to them, "Join this very old club. I am pleased to see it become co-ed." The difference is, when it was women being subjugated, no Government entities or think tanks thought it was worth studying. So ... now it's a big efn deal. About time, too.
This is why men should take "Women's Studies." These young men, maybe when they realize it is they repeating societal history, but from the other side, they will realize we females and males ARE EQUAL. Stop diminishing us females if you don't like being diminished yourselves.
Btw, I am 77 and I damnwell know what I am talking about - it is lived memory.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that. My father left my mother in the mid 70s for a young woman who worked in his office and my mother couldn’t even get a phone line in her new place because she wasn’t allowed to have a credit card because she was a woman. Her ex husband had to co-sign to get it installed! I remember thinking that was so wrong and I was 7! It stung too because 20 years earlier he’d insisted she quit her job & be a homemaker (she had an accounting job at Campbell Soup and was whip smart - could do calculations in her head most people need a calculator to do and was on track to be promoted). When he left her, she had to go back to school in her mid 40s and start over. It was a brutal time.
Absolutely, Fiona. Women in those circumstances were friends of mine over the years.
I also recall that when I wanted to buy a little car, the dealership required my parents to cosign. They did, of course, and also paid half the price of the car so my contract would be shorter.
Hear, hear. Amazing that you experienced that and it was considered normal.
I agree women have come a long way and some men feel afraid if that. They don't seem to want to acknowledge women and men are the same species, both are 100% valuable.
Please let me add, the heartburn created by the acceptance into law of Roe v. Wade was a total nationwide shit storm. At the same time - I think - my calendar loses specificity as I inch toward 78 - the Equal Rights Amendment was proposed about the same time. 53 (fifty-three) years later - bupkis. Only 35 of the required 38 states passed it, even after a time extension.
Would that the Christalmighty Nationals had left it at that: give us our Roe v. Wade, but defeated the Equal Rights Amendment just to show us who's really BOSS. That's all you're getting, gals. But, nooooooooooo. They took back Roe v. Wade too, and continuing to demonize Planned Parenthood as well.
So - young men, you aren't the only ones who have experienced the full force of toxic masculinity - just where do you think the term "male chauvinist pig" came from?
I totally agree. There has been window dressing over equality of the sexes. It's like it's ingrained in males and abetted by some females and considered "the way things are, don't change my world".
Similar to structural inequality (for some women,I think it is institutionalisation. Like they feel safe when life predictable and they know what to expect).
DEI was supposed to help remedy the inequality but Trump and his ilk reversed it to retain the status quo with societal bias, or unconscious discrimination. Trump really bought out the fear people have and revved it up to hate, then targeted those individuals against minorities snd Trump's targets. I was saddened when I saw this happen over the last decade.
It doesn't have to be this way. I'm glad we are having these honest conversations.
How else would men learn what it is like to be a part of a publicly sanctioned oppression from BIRTH? Males were given opportunities, just because they happened to be born male. Some never knew, others exploited the opportunities for good or bad.
That's why I empathise with LGBTQ, because they were born without a choice too. They didn't ask for the shit from society because of it either.
Many males, enabled at times by females really want to ignore the fact that how we are at birth is not our choice.
Elon is a classic example when he fiddled with DNA to make a group of male children. Then he got angry and disowned his child because she felt female inside. Musk disowned her. She is still beautiful, smart, witty yet Elon pretends she doesn't exist. All because she CHOSE to be female. Sometimes our DNA expresses differently. Musk used DNA to make males, yet even he cannot control everything. So what if she is now female? Why do some people need to control everything?
You are an authetic person who appears intelligent, wise, confident, witty, and empathic. Despite societal oppression, you express yourself with love and kindness. Your struggles and defiance made it easier for the next generations of females. Where here again, and thank you for sharing your experiences.
You had help over your lifetime and it does make life a little better. I'm so happy for you and how you made the best with what was there. Some others didn't have help and were judged because of their choices in order to survive.
Thankyou for speaking up for us all. I'm so grateful to you!
Totally agree with you! At 73 it is very sad to some of our (WOMEN"S) rights being stripped away and lives put in danger after 50 years of legalized abortions so that women did NOT die unnecessarily! We fought long and hard for Roe V Wade (and by the way gentlemen it is for YOU too! The right to privacy!)
I have to comment on this after today’s discussion between two men (wonderful both) about toxic masculinity and the issues men are having these days. And while I can understand some of it, it left off half the conversation, and i posted during the live that you really need to have this discussion with women in the mix. Because what SL Montgo and others here have stated is the actual problem.
For the great majority of time immemorial, women have been subjugated and treated as property, without rights, and as personal maids and nurses to men. While there was chivalrous behavior (not from all men) which was decent, and the focus was on women raising the children and managing the household, they were - and still are - treated as second class citizens, unworthy of equality.
I am 70, was born in 1955, and remember well the inability of women to have a credit card without a husband signing for it, or credit in their name. I came to college around the time that the women’s movement in the late 60s and early 70s was growing. We FINALLY got credit, and a few other rights, but the glass ceiling has continued. I frankly ignored it mostly, and did what I wanted. And yes, my husband left me for another woman, screwing up our retirement that I had personally worked my ass off for by starting and building my own company and contributing to our financial well being. And banks continued treating me like a second class citizen.
And as other women here mentioned, the ERA has YET to be passed and is continually voted down by MEN. So crocodile tears for the emasculation and sadness of men and their crying over “toxic masculinity” which to many of us is frankly whining. Grow a pair. Take some responsibility for yourselves, because women have never had that right. While we have made huge gains and strides, we are still looked down on as less than a man, or the ERA would have been passed long ago.
Then you took away our rights to bodily autonomy which we fought our asses off for, and that was done by mostly men, including the odious Samuel Alito who lives in the Middle Ages.
Throughout time, women have been demonized as witches, and as spinsters, and as temptresses or sex objects - to be there for the comfort and servitude of males. And while I fully get what you two have said regarding the mess that males are in these days, and that it is causing issues, you need to look to the history of the mid 1900s to see where it came from. The toxicity toward women, and then the fact that women have been allowed into the work force and into education in large numbers, and have become self sufficient. And the reaction of many men has been to continue being abusive and condescending toward women who don’t stay at home as the maid, child rearers, and servants of men. And while there are MORE DECENT MEN than jerks, the problem remains. And men are truly in many cases toxic toward women to this day.
Then there is the complaining that women in the workforce have taken men’s jobs. And DEI. If they were so great, why did women get hired? BECAUSE WE WERE PAID LESS FOR THE SAME WORK.
My evidence of males treating me like a piece of ass personally is my own experiences where men have forced themselves on me repeatedly as if I am some kind of sexual gratification machine. From the time I was 14 years old. And believe it or not, it hasn’t stopped. Attraction is one thing and a good thing, but unwanted attention is quite another. The respect women are given is also not universal.
So when boys will be boys and treat women as property, instead of equal human beings (and this is not all men, but is a big subset) then frankly my dear, I just don’t give a damn, and the label is earned.
Hooray!!! Barbara YOU ROCK!!! The only thing I would add to this (confessing I don't know if anyone mentioned it in comments yet). For decades, there was the constant "Litmus test" of every candidate in the running for POTUS, Congress, and SCOTUS appointments: "How would you vote on abortion?" That is some toxic Litmus test, amirite?
I have only one more thing to say here on toxic masculinity and the state of young men that Adam brought up and was lamenting about - which I get, by the way - and that is MALES NEED TO BE BETTER EXAMPLES AND LEADERS for other young men. They learn by example, and if you have a father, leader, teacher, or whatever who is modeling the wrong behavior - and I am also including women here as mothers, teachers, whatever, then you have a bad result. (Unless there is something very wrong psychologically and biologically with the child).
If you don’t parent or lead by example as a male to another male, then you reap what you sow. Are you there for your son and daughters? How are they being taught as they are growing up? Are they being abandoned or ignored or are you just too busy to help? Are they being seen and valued? There is a LOT that men, themselves, can do to solve this issue. You want good caring humans? You need to raise them and model that behavior and make it something they wish to emulate. You model toxic? You reap what you sow.
I recommend reading Walter Rhein on Substack. He addresses that very topic a lot. I listen to him daily. Also, if anyone wants to assess what to do about these young men, I would recommed this thread that is provided at no charge.
You know, sexual abuse has been around all my life, my friends/family or myself were victim to it. In the 1980's (Trump's era) paedophilia was prevalent and older men bragged about dating teenagers and females in their 20's to show off their prowess (exactly like Trump does). It was considered a feather in their masculinity cap.
But things changed. How can men know they are virile now that abuse is more public and deemed bad for society, which seems to create angst in men?
Especially now, women are gaining or losing rights more than in the past. Some even get equal pay, and sometimes women do deserve the top job. Where does that leave men's identity when one bases their identity on their job and ability to provide for their family?
I've seen right-wing media influencers tell young men they need to abuse women. The influencers want society to regress so they can feel powerful again. Sometimes laws are enforced in severe cases to protect women. Women no longer have to avoid/duck/weave, or gently/aggressively dismiss the advances by some males. That is, until the reversal of Roe v Wade, now we've stepped back in time. Rapes and incest numbers have gone up with no charges or even the presumption men should be charged. Instead, women get charged and anyone who assisted her.
The good news is there is this new type of attitude growing in the background that is immune to Alpha males. Right-wing influencers can't understand it, but women love these guys. If you want to attract women, have a family, and be valued in whatever you do, study up, guys. I found a description on a website that's worth a look for anyone interested.
There is a new name for the type of guy who is not stuck in the old ways that require domination over others...and I like it (as do sooo many other women):
The Zeta Male
"Finally, there’s zeta males. This male personality type is characterized by their non-conformity and rejection of societal expectations. They focus on their individuality and personal autonomy above all else. As such, many zeta males chart their own paths and are driven by their own passions and interests.
In terms of partnerships and family life, it is important for zetas to channel their energies into constructive avenues, focusing on the goals of parenting and the well-being of their children. While they would be tempted to confront the negative scenarios head-on, they opt for the more sound alternative to keep the well-being of everyone involved intact. ".
Men need to think about how they act toward their fellow human.
Wendy, thank you so much for this. I’ll look for the link you sent next. It is good to see that this is now being “a thing” and being modeled for a non-toxic version of masculinity. Because, as you point out, that has been the dominant model for so long. And, if men have been feeling “lost” because they have lost the focus on being the protector and provider (with in some cases ugly aggression) what they need to realize is they haven’t lost that role because women have advanced in society. The lens has been on the crude behavior foisted on women to dominate them. Which, as you also point out, has been recently modeled by asshole influencers like Charlie Kirk and their ilk. And that is absolutely NOT masculine. Male strength is in how they use it - not to dominate, but to protect and nurture and help the family grow. To infantalize women by making them objects, rather than the other half of a system to rear the family, or just to be themselves out in the world is unhealthy. Maybe something positive can come from this, eventually. Mutual respect, teamwork, and appreciation on both sides can go a long way here. Thank you for your thoughtful post. And, for the record, I am not a man hater, I am someone who celebrates people who are decent - regardless of sex, and who are positive contributors to society and their loved ones.
Amen to everything you said! I had the same experiences as you as a young woman- couldn’t get a credit card in my twenties without a husband or father (but not a sister or mother) to co-sign.
All these years later, and men still think it is all about them! Still don’t have a clue what life has been like for women for endless generations. Still feel personally injured by the loss of any of the male privileges they have enjoyed since the dawn of time. Still feel rightfully entitled to be in charge and resentful of so-called “DEI hires” taking all the jobs that should be theirs! It’s nauseating.
I hear about the whining of these young men who can’t attract a woman to date online and who turn to hating women as a result, and I want to shake them! What about all the young women who can’t attract a guy because they aren’t sexy enough? Not just on line, but for generations before the Internet when girls had to wait to be asked! Good grief! Grow up!
A true alpha male is not threatened by an equally strong, intelligent woman. Stop pretending, and follow Adam’s and Terry’s examples. Two good men!
AMEN sister! I too remember those dang days. Pissed me off too. But I persevered & didn't let the creditors get away w/ it. They tried but I gave them grief till I got what I wanted & won!
Adam is correct about Trump always backing down. Mary Trump, Michael Cohen, Lev Parnas, Aaron Parnas, and you, Adam. They have all punched back, they now speak their minds bluntly and freely - not a whisper from Dickless Donnie.
Thank you, Adam, for leaving Congress and gaining strength. Thank you, Terry, for accepting the new challange with your integrity on full display. You are CITIZENS taking the lead, not waiting for some compromised D Congressperson to do it. We, the People, will win back our Democracy.
Not exactly correct that the left said everything masculine was toxic. Masculine is fine...toxic masculinity is the assumption that male needs dominate others' needs.
If the messaging got lost, that has to be addressed but MASCULINITY =/= TOXIC masculinity. As a woman, I don't want to be called an "airman" because I'm not a man. Losing gendered roles is fine and that is not being communicated clearly.
Yes men and women, and YES non-binary folks, can be who they are but let's not reward the toxic stuff, and lets just allow people to identify as they need to.
Football is NOT toxic masculinity...I couldn't agree more
We as a society have always gone to extremes - so if one side or generation liked football, those that want to be different would throw out the baby with the bathwater. When I was a young girl, toy soldiers & cap guns were common toys but a few years later, if they were offered as a birthday gift, the giver would ostracized. Anti-violence movement was extreme and even contributed to the cancellation of Star Trek.
IMHO, what we really need is to realize that different people respond & need different things. Football may be an outlet for someone high energy & tending toward aggressiveness. Someone more passive might not need this, understand or like the game. But that doesn't mean either gets to demand or ban participation.
Also, IMHO, what really messed up the game is greed.
Terry, thank you for having Adam on your show! I am sorry you lost your job with ABC but, like Adam, you will now have a higher calling. Your talking about living with joy is the answer we need for today! Yes, there will be a minority of sad people attracted to the trumps and steven millers; however, more people are attracted to those with joy!! So the answer to winning over maga isn't through verbally convincing them but by showing why NOT to be maga! Adam, please keep showing your joyful pictures and keep taking care of yourself so you may continue this fight. And Terry, please keep living your joy because it DEFINITELY showed through on the screen!
Thank you, Adam Kinsinger. I didn’t know who you were until you were such a pivotal part of the commission after that seditious insurrection. Brave and courageous. Thank you.
So Adam, removing the word "man" from everything has to do with acknowledging that women also do whatever job that's described by the word - Postman, Congressman, etc. Women have been left out of the picture until very recent decades, invisible, even when our efforts have brought wonderful things to the world we haven't been seen for those efforts. Changing the words is acknowledging that it's not just men who do these jobs. It acknowledges how our world has opened up. The fact that you, Adam, would claim that removing "man" from words and occupations has to do with people on the left calling "everything" masculine toxic is blind. The fact that this is the slant you see it from, from the viewpoint of a man rather than trying to see it from the viewpoint of women who have been overlooked and sidelined for so long, only emphasizes the point that you yourself aren't seeing women either. You are ignoring us too. I suggest you open your viewpoint. Masculine toxicity does exist. I'm not going into all the places it exists, but it most certainly is not this.
I didn’t know you, Terry before because I didn’t watch your news channel. I am a faithful former CNN viewer. But I’m so glad that I now get to watch you and I’m so impressed! Thank you for coming to substack!
Thank you Terry for not requiring a paid subscription to voice my opinion!
I sincerely hope you are correct that we have mid-term elections! God knows we NEED them!
It’s disgusting that tRUMP ever was declared the winner when in 2016 the Russians and Facebook skewed things dramatically (read Careless People about FB, if you don’t believe me!)
And this last election I’ve seen several reports, one by a math guy) who said there is no way in hell all 7 of the swing states went to him. Never mind all of the ballots that either were not counted or thrown out. 2 of the men who talk about this say that definitely happened.
I’ve also heard that R’s hate mail in ballots versus in person because mail in ballots can not be tampered with! Just a heads up everyone!
Why? Why are you Republicans only speaking on your way out the door? Where were you when the "$hit" was going. You call it out and then what!? Tell me what to do!
Adam was the first I saw when he was home andwering a/a in his district. I remember when he said DJT teal were wrong, he was booed. I was not surprised when he and Cheney took the roadless yawn. I disagree with many of his votes, but I stand with his ethics and morals.👍
There are NO MORALS OR ETHICS when your SUPPORTING ETHNIC CLEANSING OF ANY PLACE. If God DIDN’T WANT COLORED PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH THEN THEY WOULDN’T BE HERE! Every MAGA supporter claimed that “immigrants were taking their jobs, money and opportunities away.” Okay welp ICE has CLEARLY, CERTAINLY, and ON VIDEO behaved as predators ensuring they got EVERY immigrant going to their court dates. Sick mothers being physically torn away from their us citizen toddlers and sent to a place where they kneel 5-7hours a day and if u fall over from exhaustion? Oh well that’s certainly means ur a criminal and u get ur ass beat. Let’s not get into the FACTS that THIS ADMINISTRATION IS STERILIZING THESE SO CALLED “criminal immigrants” and have the AUDACITY to shut down women’s health services? The ONLY place that used to be a SAFE SPACE FOR WOMEN? I absolutely RELISH they day when the same women whose voted for these sociopaths, get a nice dose of what they voted for.
AND GUESS WHAT NOW THAT ICE HAS REMOVED MOSTLY ANYONE OF COLOR BESIDE BLACKS, alllllllll your jobs are back right? Got better educations? Nope all he did was DISMANTLE OUR VERY CONSTITUTIONAL Rights. NOW when it finally IS covered by the mainstream news(hopefully) Only THEN WILL PEOPLE SAY “awww we didn’t vote for that” YES YA DID. YA VOTED FOR EVIL. EVIL BEGETS EVILS. AND NOBODY IS UNTOUCHABLE AND I HOPE NO MERCY IS SHOWN ON ANYONE EVIL LIKE P BONDI AND HER LIAR ASS. TALKING ABOUT THERES NO CLIENT LIST. SHE REALLY SHOULD OF SAID “The Epstein client listed was incinerated because it had my masters name in it way too much” just wait
Adam, at 8 minutes 35'ish seconds, you defined exactly how I as a young woman in 1968 felt. I could not get a checking account without a cosigner. I could not rent my own apartment without a cosigner. I was clearly made to feel diminished only because I was female and not valued as a 100% human citizen. Hence, over the decades, enough women realized why they felt that way - it became called "toxic masculinity" and defined by "mansplaining."
So truly, if young men of my age back then are feeling this identical rejection of themselves as valued, I say to them, "Join this very old club. I am pleased to see it become co-ed." The difference is, when it was women being subjugated, no Government entities or think tanks thought it was worth studying. So ... now it's a big efn deal. About time, too.
This is why men should take "Women's Studies." These young men, maybe when they realize it is they repeating societal history, but from the other side, they will realize we females and males ARE EQUAL. Stop diminishing us females if you don't like being diminished yourselves.
Btw, I am 77 and I damnwell know what I am talking about - it is lived memory.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that. My father left my mother in the mid 70s for a young woman who worked in his office and my mother couldn’t even get a phone line in her new place because she wasn’t allowed to have a credit card because she was a woman. Her ex husband had to co-sign to get it installed! I remember thinking that was so wrong and I was 7! It stung too because 20 years earlier he’d insisted she quit her job & be a homemaker (she had an accounting job at Campbell Soup and was whip smart - could do calculations in her head most people need a calculator to do and was on track to be promoted). When he left her, she had to go back to school in her mid 40s and start over. It was a brutal time.
Absolutely, Fiona. Women in those circumstances were friends of mine over the years.
I also recall that when I wanted to buy a little car, the dealership required my parents to cosign. They did, of course, and also paid half the price of the car so my contract would be shorter.
I so understand
I admire your comment very much. You’ve stated with civility what I can only express in anger. Yours is the better way.
Thank you, Deb. I very much appreciate this comment. 💞
Hear, hear. Amazing that you experienced that and it was considered normal.
I agree women have come a long way and some men feel afraid if that. They don't seem to want to acknowledge women and men are the same species, both are 100% valuable.
Thank you, Wendy !
Please let me add, the heartburn created by the acceptance into law of Roe v. Wade was a total nationwide shit storm. At the same time - I think - my calendar loses specificity as I inch toward 78 - the Equal Rights Amendment was proposed about the same time. 53 (fifty-three) years later - bupkis. Only 35 of the required 38 states passed it, even after a time extension.
Would that the Christalmighty Nationals had left it at that: give us our Roe v. Wade, but defeated the Equal Rights Amendment just to show us who's really BOSS. That's all you're getting, gals. But, nooooooooooo. They took back Roe v. Wade too, and continuing to demonize Planned Parenthood as well.
So - young men, you aren't the only ones who have experienced the full force of toxic masculinity - just where do you think the term "male chauvinist pig" came from?
I totally agree. There has been window dressing over equality of the sexes. It's like it's ingrained in males and abetted by some females and considered "the way things are, don't change my world".
Similar to structural inequality (for some women,I think it is institutionalisation. Like they feel safe when life predictable and they know what to expect).
DEI was supposed to help remedy the inequality but Trump and his ilk reversed it to retain the status quo with societal bias, or unconscious discrimination. Trump really bought out the fear people have and revved it up to hate, then targeted those individuals against minorities snd Trump's targets. I was saddened when I saw this happen over the last decade.
It doesn't have to be this way. I'm glad we are having these honest conversations.
How else would men learn what it is like to be a part of a publicly sanctioned oppression from BIRTH? Males were given opportunities, just because they happened to be born male. Some never knew, others exploited the opportunities for good or bad.
That's why I empathise with LGBTQ, because they were born without a choice too. They didn't ask for the shit from society because of it either.
Many males, enabled at times by females really want to ignore the fact that how we are at birth is not our choice.
Elon is a classic example when he fiddled with DNA to make a group of male children. Then he got angry and disowned his child because she felt female inside. Musk disowned her. She is still beautiful, smart, witty yet Elon pretends she doesn't exist. All because she CHOSE to be female. Sometimes our DNA expresses differently. Musk used DNA to make males, yet even he cannot control everything. So what if she is now female? Why do some people need to control everything?
You are an authetic person who appears intelligent, wise, confident, witty, and empathic. Despite societal oppression, you express yourself with love and kindness. Your struggles and defiance made it easier for the next generations of females. Where here again, and thank you for sharing your experiences.
You had help over your lifetime and it does make life a little better. I'm so happy for you and how you made the best with what was there. Some others didn't have help and were judged because of their choices in order to survive.
Thankyou for speaking up for us all. I'm so grateful to you!
FYI - Here’s an entertaining and informative video outlining the timeline of women’s rights (& how recent they are). https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLYmxlstg01/?igsh=MTU2dm12cm4ydmdjdA==
Totally agree with you! At 73 it is very sad to some of our (WOMEN"S) rights being stripped away and lives put in danger after 50 years of legalized abortions so that women did NOT die unnecessarily! We fought long and hard for Roe V Wade (and by the way gentlemen it is for YOU too! The right to privacy!)
So glad you spoke up! Thank You!
I have to comment on this after today’s discussion between two men (wonderful both) about toxic masculinity and the issues men are having these days. And while I can understand some of it, it left off half the conversation, and i posted during the live that you really need to have this discussion with women in the mix. Because what SL Montgo and others here have stated is the actual problem.
For the great majority of time immemorial, women have been subjugated and treated as property, without rights, and as personal maids and nurses to men. While there was chivalrous behavior (not from all men) which was decent, and the focus was on women raising the children and managing the household, they were - and still are - treated as second class citizens, unworthy of equality.
I am 70, was born in 1955, and remember well the inability of women to have a credit card without a husband signing for it, or credit in their name. I came to college around the time that the women’s movement in the late 60s and early 70s was growing. We FINALLY got credit, and a few other rights, but the glass ceiling has continued. I frankly ignored it mostly, and did what I wanted. And yes, my husband left me for another woman, screwing up our retirement that I had personally worked my ass off for by starting and building my own company and contributing to our financial well being. And banks continued treating me like a second class citizen.
And as other women here mentioned, the ERA has YET to be passed and is continually voted down by MEN. So crocodile tears for the emasculation and sadness of men and their crying over “toxic masculinity” which to many of us is frankly whining. Grow a pair. Take some responsibility for yourselves, because women have never had that right. While we have made huge gains and strides, we are still looked down on as less than a man, or the ERA would have been passed long ago.
Then you took away our rights to bodily autonomy which we fought our asses off for, and that was done by mostly men, including the odious Samuel Alito who lives in the Middle Ages.
Throughout time, women have been demonized as witches, and as spinsters, and as temptresses or sex objects - to be there for the comfort and servitude of males. And while I fully get what you two have said regarding the mess that males are in these days, and that it is causing issues, you need to look to the history of the mid 1900s to see where it came from. The toxicity toward women, and then the fact that women have been allowed into the work force and into education in large numbers, and have become self sufficient. And the reaction of many men has been to continue being abusive and condescending toward women who don’t stay at home as the maid, child rearers, and servants of men. And while there are MORE DECENT MEN than jerks, the problem remains. And men are truly in many cases toxic toward women to this day.
Then there is the complaining that women in the workforce have taken men’s jobs. And DEI. If they were so great, why did women get hired? BECAUSE WE WERE PAID LESS FOR THE SAME WORK.
My evidence of males treating me like a piece of ass personally is my own experiences where men have forced themselves on me repeatedly as if I am some kind of sexual gratification machine. From the time I was 14 years old. And believe it or not, it hasn’t stopped. Attraction is one thing and a good thing, but unwanted attention is quite another. The respect women are given is also not universal.
So when boys will be boys and treat women as property, instead of equal human beings (and this is not all men, but is a big subset) then frankly my dear, I just don’t give a damn, and the label is earned.
Hooray!!! Barbara YOU ROCK!!! The only thing I would add to this (confessing I don't know if anyone mentioned it in comments yet). For decades, there was the constant "Litmus test" of every candidate in the running for POTUS, Congress, and SCOTUS appointments: "How would you vote on abortion?" That is some toxic Litmus test, amirite?
Yes @SLMontago, you are correct.
I have only one more thing to say here on toxic masculinity and the state of young men that Adam brought up and was lamenting about - which I get, by the way - and that is MALES NEED TO BE BETTER EXAMPLES AND LEADERS for other young men. They learn by example, and if you have a father, leader, teacher, or whatever who is modeling the wrong behavior - and I am also including women here as mothers, teachers, whatever, then you have a bad result. (Unless there is something very wrong psychologically and biologically with the child).
If you don’t parent or lead by example as a male to another male, then you reap what you sow. Are you there for your son and daughters? How are they being taught as they are growing up? Are they being abandoned or ignored or are you just too busy to help? Are they being seen and valued? There is a LOT that men, themselves, can do to solve this issue. You want good caring humans? You need to raise them and model that behavior and make it something they wish to emulate. You model toxic? You reap what you sow.
I recommend reading Walter Rhein on Substack. He addresses that very topic a lot. I listen to him daily. Also, if anyone wants to assess what to do about these young men, I would recommed this thread that is provided at no charge.
Thanks for the rec!
He does write about other things but seems to be rooted in his icky rural upbringing, which sounds brutal to me 😮
You know, sexual abuse has been around all my life, my friends/family or myself were victim to it. In the 1980's (Trump's era) paedophilia was prevalent and older men bragged about dating teenagers and females in their 20's to show off their prowess (exactly like Trump does). It was considered a feather in their masculinity cap.
But things changed. How can men know they are virile now that abuse is more public and deemed bad for society, which seems to create angst in men?
Especially now, women are gaining or losing rights more than in the past. Some even get equal pay, and sometimes women do deserve the top job. Where does that leave men's identity when one bases their identity on their job and ability to provide for their family?
I've seen right-wing media influencers tell young men they need to abuse women. The influencers want society to regress so they can feel powerful again. Sometimes laws are enforced in severe cases to protect women. Women no longer have to avoid/duck/weave, or gently/aggressively dismiss the advances by some males. That is, until the reversal of Roe v Wade, now we've stepped back in time. Rapes and incest numbers have gone up with no charges or even the presumption men should be charged. Instead, women get charged and anyone who assisted her.
The good news is there is this new type of attitude growing in the background that is immune to Alpha males. Right-wing influencers can't understand it, but women love these guys. If you want to attract women, have a family, and be valued in whatever you do, study up, guys. I found a description on a website that's worth a look for anyone interested.
https://www.daduniversity.com/blog/the-7-male-personality-types
There is a new name for the type of guy who is not stuck in the old ways that require domination over others...and I like it (as do sooo many other women):
The Zeta Male
"Finally, there’s zeta males. This male personality type is characterized by their non-conformity and rejection of societal expectations. They focus on their individuality and personal autonomy above all else. As such, many zeta males chart their own paths and are driven by their own passions and interests.
In terms of partnerships and family life, it is important for zetas to channel their energies into constructive avenues, focusing on the goals of parenting and the well-being of their children. While they would be tempted to confront the negative scenarios head-on, they opt for the more sound alternative to keep the well-being of everyone involved intact. ".
Men need to think about how they act toward their fellow human.
Wendy, thank you so much for this. I’ll look for the link you sent next. It is good to see that this is now being “a thing” and being modeled for a non-toxic version of masculinity. Because, as you point out, that has been the dominant model for so long. And, if men have been feeling “lost” because they have lost the focus on being the protector and provider (with in some cases ugly aggression) what they need to realize is they haven’t lost that role because women have advanced in society. The lens has been on the crude behavior foisted on women to dominate them. Which, as you also point out, has been recently modeled by asshole influencers like Charlie Kirk and their ilk. And that is absolutely NOT masculine. Male strength is in how they use it - not to dominate, but to protect and nurture and help the family grow. To infantalize women by making them objects, rather than the other half of a system to rear the family, or just to be themselves out in the world is unhealthy. Maybe something positive can come from this, eventually. Mutual respect, teamwork, and appreciation on both sides can go a long way here. Thank you for your thoughtful post. And, for the record, I am not a man hater, I am someone who celebrates people who are decent - regardless of sex, and who are positive contributors to society and their loved ones.
Amen to everything you said! I had the same experiences as you as a young woman- couldn’t get a credit card in my twenties without a husband or father (but not a sister or mother) to co-sign.
All these years later, and men still think it is all about them! Still don’t have a clue what life has been like for women for endless generations. Still feel personally injured by the loss of any of the male privileges they have enjoyed since the dawn of time. Still feel rightfully entitled to be in charge and resentful of so-called “DEI hires” taking all the jobs that should be theirs! It’s nauseating.
I hear about the whining of these young men who can’t attract a woman to date online and who turn to hating women as a result, and I want to shake them! What about all the young women who can’t attract a guy because they aren’t sexy enough? Not just on line, but for generations before the Internet when girls had to wait to be asked! Good grief! Grow up!
A true alpha male is not threatened by an equally strong, intelligent woman. Stop pretending, and follow Adam’s and Terry’s examples. Two good men!
Bravo Deb
Yes you are right.
AMEN sister! I too remember those dang days. Pissed me off too. But I persevered & didn't let the creditors get away w/ it. They tried but I gave them grief till I got what I wanted & won!
Adam is correct about Trump always backing down. Mary Trump, Michael Cohen, Lev Parnas, Aaron Parnas, and you, Adam. They have all punched back, they now speak their minds bluntly and freely - not a whisper from Dickless Donnie.
Thank you, Adam, for leaving Congress and gaining strength. Thank you, Terry, for accepting the new challange with your integrity on full display. You are CITIZENS taking the lead, not waiting for some compromised D Congressperson to do it. We, the People, will win back our Democracy.
Not exactly correct that the left said everything masculine was toxic. Masculine is fine...toxic masculinity is the assumption that male needs dominate others' needs.
If the messaging got lost, that has to be addressed but MASCULINITY =/= TOXIC masculinity. As a woman, I don't want to be called an "airman" because I'm not a man. Losing gendered roles is fine and that is not being communicated clearly.
Yes men and women, and YES non-binary folks, can be who they are but let's not reward the toxic stuff, and lets just allow people to identify as they need to.
Football is NOT toxic masculinity...I couldn't agree more
We as a society have always gone to extremes - so if one side or generation liked football, those that want to be different would throw out the baby with the bathwater. When I was a young girl, toy soldiers & cap guns were common toys but a few years later, if they were offered as a birthday gift, the giver would ostracized. Anti-violence movement was extreme and even contributed to the cancellation of Star Trek.
IMHO, what we really need is to realize that different people respond & need different things. Football may be an outlet for someone high energy & tending toward aggressiveness. Someone more passive might not need this, understand or like the game. But that doesn't mean either gets to demand or ban participation.
Also, IMHO, what really messed up the game is greed.
I agree!
I love this! So true. The weird this is that other weak people find strength in being MAGA.
👏👏👏
Terry, thank you for having Adam on your show! I am sorry you lost your job with ABC but, like Adam, you will now have a higher calling. Your talking about living with joy is the answer we need for today! Yes, there will be a minority of sad people attracted to the trumps and steven millers; however, more people are attracted to those with joy!! So the answer to winning over maga isn't through verbally convincing them but by showing why NOT to be maga! Adam, please keep showing your joyful pictures and keep taking care of yourself so you may continue this fight. And Terry, please keep living your joy because it DEFINITELY showed through on the screen!
Refreshing viewpoints. Very essential and positive to remind us that we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave!
He’s mean but not tough!
He’s always the victim!
He’s like a junk yard dog 🐕
Terry/Adam '28! Outstanding work gentlemen, keep up the good fight
I’ve said that for years, t-rump brings out the worst in people
Love both you men. Thank you for continuing to fight this man and his vile administration.
Thank you, Adam Kinsinger. I didn’t know who you were until you were such a pivotal part of the commission after that seditious insurrection. Brave and courageous. Thank you.
So Adam, removing the word "man" from everything has to do with acknowledging that women also do whatever job that's described by the word - Postman, Congressman, etc. Women have been left out of the picture until very recent decades, invisible, even when our efforts have brought wonderful things to the world we haven't been seen for those efforts. Changing the words is acknowledging that it's not just men who do these jobs. It acknowledges how our world has opened up. The fact that you, Adam, would claim that removing "man" from words and occupations has to do with people on the left calling "everything" masculine toxic is blind. The fact that this is the slant you see it from, from the viewpoint of a man rather than trying to see it from the viewpoint of women who have been overlooked and sidelined for so long, only emphasizes the point that you yourself aren't seeing women either. You are ignoring us too. I suggest you open your viewpoint. Masculine toxicity does exist. I'm not going into all the places it exists, but it most certainly is not this.
I didn’t know you, Terry before because I didn’t watch your news channel. I am a faithful former CNN viewer. But I’m so glad that I now get to watch you and I’m so impressed! Thank you for coming to substack!
What a great interview/conversation!
Thank you Terry for not requiring a paid subscription to voice my opinion!
I sincerely hope you are correct that we have mid-term elections! God knows we NEED them!
It’s disgusting that tRUMP ever was declared the winner when in 2016 the Russians and Facebook skewed things dramatically (read Careless People about FB, if you don’t believe me!)
And this last election I’ve seen several reports, one by a math guy) who said there is no way in hell all 7 of the swing states went to him. Never mind all of the ballots that either were not counted or thrown out. 2 of the men who talk about this say that definitely happened.
I’ve also heard that R’s hate mail in ballots versus in person because mail in ballots can not be tampered with! Just a heads up everyone!
Why? Why are you Republicans only speaking on your way out the door? Where were you when the "$hit" was going. You call it out and then what!? Tell me what to do!
Adam was the first I saw when he was home andwering a/a in his district. I remember when he said DJT teal were wrong, he was booed. I was not surprised when he and Cheney took the roadless yawn. I disagree with many of his votes, but I stand with his ethics and morals.👍
There are NO MORALS OR ETHICS when your SUPPORTING ETHNIC CLEANSING OF ANY PLACE. If God DIDN’T WANT COLORED PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH THEN THEY WOULDN’T BE HERE! Every MAGA supporter claimed that “immigrants were taking their jobs, money and opportunities away.” Okay welp ICE has CLEARLY, CERTAINLY, and ON VIDEO behaved as predators ensuring they got EVERY immigrant going to their court dates. Sick mothers being physically torn away from their us citizen toddlers and sent to a place where they kneel 5-7hours a day and if u fall over from exhaustion? Oh well that’s certainly means ur a criminal and u get ur ass beat. Let’s not get into the FACTS that THIS ADMINISTRATION IS STERILIZING THESE SO CALLED “criminal immigrants” and have the AUDACITY to shut down women’s health services? The ONLY place that used to be a SAFE SPACE FOR WOMEN? I absolutely RELISH they day when the same women whose voted for these sociopaths, get a nice dose of what they voted for.
AND GUESS WHAT NOW THAT ICE HAS REMOVED MOSTLY ANYONE OF COLOR BESIDE BLACKS, alllllllll your jobs are back right? Got better educations? Nope all he did was DISMANTLE OUR VERY CONSTITUTIONAL Rights. NOW when it finally IS covered by the mainstream news(hopefully) Only THEN WILL PEOPLE SAY “awww we didn’t vote for that” YES YA DID. YA VOTED FOR EVIL. EVIL BEGETS EVILS. AND NOBODY IS UNTOUCHABLE AND I HOPE NO MERCY IS SHOWN ON ANYONE EVIL LIKE P BONDI AND HER LIAR ASS. TALKING ABOUT THERES NO CLIENT LIST. SHE REALLY SHOULD OF SAID “The Epstein client listed was incinerated because it had my masters name in it way too much” just wait